Patreon - Campaign play - strenuous activites and rest

I’m trying to understand the penalties from strenuous activites from the campaign play patreon document. Either I am misunderstanding something or the example is wrong. Relevant quoutes:

“Characters who do not get the appropriate rest after six game days of strenuous activity suffer a cumulative penalty of -1 per day to attack throws, damage rolls, and proficiency throws until they have caught up on required rest.”

“EXAMPLE: … He works overtime for one additional day, which counts as two more days of strenuous activity, or eight days total. After five days of working overtime, he has performed magical research ten times, doubling his rate of research. However, he has incurred a -2 penalty to his throws.”

Now, how I read this is that after 6 days you are at a -1. Then you should be at -3 after 8 days, not -2?

Or is it that after 6 days you have no penalty, until you have not rested on day 7, in which case you get -1 per day over 6? That matches with -2 for 8 days.

What feels wrong about the latter is that then you should work 7 days, rest 1 day, for best performance.

Hi Weron, here's the rule on rest:

For every six game days of strenuous activity, a character must rest as their major activity for one day. Characters who do not get the appropriate rest after six game days of strenuous activity suffer a cumulative penalty of -1 per day to attack throws, damage rolls, and proficiency throws until they have caught up on required rest. 

Here's the rule on overtime for unstrenuous activities:

A day working overtime on unstrenuous activities counts as a day of strenuous activity. This can be sustained for two days. Each additional day of unstrenuous overtime thereafter counts as two days of strenuous activity, until the character rests. 

And here's the example from the rules:

EXAMPLE: Maon is performing magical research that requires 30 days to complete. Magical research is a major unstrenuous activity.  Time is short, however, so Maon the spellsword works overtime and performs magical research twice for two days. These two days of overtime count as two days of strenuous activity. He continues to work overtime for another two days. These counts as two days of strenuous activity each, for a cumulative total of (1 + 1 + 2 + 2) six days of strenuous activity. He works overtime for one additional day, which counts as two more days of strenuous activity, or eight days total. After five days of working overtime, he has performed magical research ten times, doubling his rate of research. However, he has incurred a -2 penalty to his throws. To avoid further penalties, he rests for the next two days. Maon has accidentally invented the 5-day 60-hour work week with 2-day weekend. 

Day 1 - unstrenous overtime. Counts as 1 day of strenous activity.

Day 2 - unstrenous overtime. Counts as 1 day of strenous activity. Cumulative total 2 days of strain. No penalty.

Day 3 - unstrenous overtime. Counts as 2 days of strenous activity. Cumulative total 4 days of strain. No penalty.

Day 4 - unstrenous overtime. Count as 2 days of strenous activity. Cumulative total 6 days of strain. No penalty.

Day 5- unstrenous overtime. Counts as 2 days of strenous activity. Cumulative total 8 days of strain. Penalty is now -2. 

Day 6 - rests. Penalty is now -1.

Day 7 - rests. Penalty is now 0.

 

Thank you, that is clear. I like the idea of cumulative strain.

I suggest that Maon is working too hard for his own good, and should instead work like this:

Day 1 - unstrenuous regular.
Day 2 - unstrenuous regular.
Day 3 - unstrenuous overtime. Counts as 1 day of strenuous activity.
Day 4 - unstrenuous overtime. Counts as 1 day of strenuous activity. Cumulative total 2 days of strain. No penalty.
Day 5 - unstrenuous overtime. Counts as 2 days of strenuous activity. Cumulative total 4 days of strain. No penalty.
Day 6 - unstrenuous overtime. Counts as 2 days of strenuous activity. Cumulative total 6 days of strain. No penalty.
Day 7 - rest. No penalty.

I do believe you have outsmarted me, sir. I'll have to adjust the rules to avoid that outcome, as it is not-good-design to have so much productivity without any penalty.

[quote="Alex"]

I do believe you have outsmarted me, sir. I'll have to adjust the rules to avoid that outcome, as it is not-good-design to have so much productivity without any penalty.

[/quote]

And thus the weekly staff meeting was born.

 

Weron's diligent powergaming has forced me to add an additional rule to the system. "A character must rest a minimum of two days or any additional overtime will stack with prior overtime." That rule, combined with the existing rule that "A minimum penalty of -1 applies if the character worked overtime at all, even if through careful pacing he avoided otherwise incurring penalties," should keep the 6-day overtime week from becoming standard.

I appreciate that this forum exists to break my ideas before it's too late to fix them. :D

I’m not sure if I should be proud or ashamed of diligent powergaming :smiley:

For further speculation: How do the proficiencies Endurance and Wakefulness interact with this system?

Dunno about Wakefulness - having the extra 4 waking hours isn't the same as doing something productive with them, but I could see an argument for allowing a few minor unstrenous activities as a bonus.  

Endurance could be just as easy as replacing the phrase "force march" with "work overtime", as it's essentially the same thing.

Endurance (G): The character is nearly tireless. He does not need to rest every 6 turns. He can work overtime for one day without penalty, plus one additional day for each point of Constitution bonus.

Awesome questions. 

Endurance - just as you said.

Wakefulness - I would say that Wakefulness allows you to work overtime in unstrenuous activities without penalty, but provides no benefit on strenuous activities.

 

Singular unstrenous, perhaps, as a refinement - a lot of the magical activites are unstrenous but ongoing.

[quote="Weron"] I'm not sure if I should be proud or ashamed of diligent powergaming :D For further speculation: How do the proficiencies Endurance and Wakefulness interact with this system? [/quote]

 

Most Judges will appreciate you saving us from having to discover this mid-play when our powergaming players start making use of it.

I would like to add something for consideration... I come at this from a practical and anecdotal point of view. Adventuring as you have outlined can be strenuous. And I saw the penalties for "fatigue" as I would call it. Would it be appropriate to include penalties for wound recovery and surprise rolls. The reason I bring this up is steeped in my rich anececdotal experience in the Army Airborne Community and Afghanistan. Work/Rest cycles are critical and the cummulative effects of "fatigue" can seriously leave a " Party" (platoon) vulnerable to slower reaction times ( hence the surprise roll effect) and even in the rest and recovery cycle healing from wounds ( personal experience).  I just offer it for consideration. 

On the one hand, I agree. Certainly my own (limited) military experiences suggest that dealing with feedback is paramount to effectiveness. On the other hand, I'm hesitant to add more rules to a game mechanic (fatigue) that is already rarely used / somewhat fiddly. What do others think?

I feel like these rules are already at the upper limit for complexity.  If anymore rules were to be added, I'd prefer they be in a sidebar that outlines them as an option for the especially detail-oriented judge.