Really? Really?!?

[quote="DrPete"]

I was going to suggest the Billings Public Library.


-thirdkingdom

Does the bck book need sexy dinosaurs, too? [/quote]

Those are in the 2018 Swimsuit Calendar

 

That’s actually the perfect way to counter Vox Day; get Chuck Tingle to write up a class. Handsome bad boy T-rex (with cute abs).

(See Edit Below)

[quote="xfrogman5"] If you really want to show Vox Day, I suggest donating to the group most negatively affected by whites, American Indians. [/quote]

I don't particular want to show anyone.  I didn't even know who Vox Day was until a few weeks ago.  I wish I could go back to those days, before my hobby and these forums had become the latest battleground.  Also, not to be rude, but you appear to have been on these forums for approximately 1 week and haven't posted anywhere but here, and google had precious few results for xfrogman5, one of which included the comment about "the advice Vox gives", so I am not sure I want to engage with you further.

[quote="thirdkingdom"] I was going to suggest the Billings Public Library. [/quote]

Noting my above statement that I don't want to "show" anybody, is there something I should know about the Billings Public Library?  Are they famous for anti-racist outreach programs or something? Or is that just where Vox Day is from?

I appreciate you responding to me with suggestions, and want to re-iterate I respect your decision to not back something you're uncomfortable with. I am somewhat disappointed that another member of your game, sulldawga, seems more interested in twisting Alex's arm, which I believe will succeed only in breaking Alex's arm (if anything) and do nothing to stop or slow Vox Day's activities.  I'd like to try to find a way to show, in good faith, that while I don't wish to withdraw my pledge, I do not support racism or white nationalism in any form.  If you think the Billings Library is a good choice, I'd be happy to hear you out.


EDIT: aw CRAP! things got SILLY while I was typing my serious response.... uhhhh.... think fast....  WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB!

So, Vox Day really hit the "public" eye by spearheading a group of sci-fi fantasy authors and, critics, I guess, who were opposed to the increased diversity in the Hugo awards (see Rabid Puppies and Sad Puppies).  Last year their slate of nominees included serious authors along with some "joke" entries, one of whom was bizarre erotica author r. Chuck Tingle, author of classics such as Pounded in the Butt by my own Butt.  Being the brilliant man that he is, Tingle started to troll the Puppies and Vox Day in particular.  You can read about it here: https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/chuck-tingle-trolling-hugo-zoe-quinn-genius/

 

Anyway, at some point Tingle noticed that the domain name therabidpuppies.com was unclaimed, so he went ahead and purchased it and set up his own website, which is still up.  I made the Billings Public Library comment because it is one of the groups that Dr. Tingle always suggests one should make donations to.

EDIT: and I just saw this website, too: stixhiscock.com

EDIT EDIT: here's an article explaining what is up with the above link: http://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-pulls-castalia-house-book-for-ripping-off-john-s-1793533638

First an apology for not being able to support this excellent kickstarter. My finances are all claimed, even the $10 level. Maybe the  Chainmail Bikini Bladedancers of Aura 2017 Swimsuit Calendar next time eh? ;) 

Second, anyone interested in heroic fantasy , the OSR or the like better  get used to running into  Right Wingers, Reactionaires, .Alt Right  and all kinds of groups like that. Its a very popular hobby among that set. Especially OSR games.

Third, giving money to native American  won't make  make Vox Day happy. He is a Native American  himself and a registered member of a tribe, not sure which one  He's also cordial with Chuck Tingle as the Rabid Puppies got Mr. Tingle a Hugo nomination. The  best thing you can do with your money is to put it to the kickstarted here for the Chosen One and add a little "Blue Rose" style to the mix. 

Fourth  this community really isn't big enough yet to have internal disputes without inadvertently harming allies.  May I consder taking the Libertarian approach to the problem, just worry about a good product . saying I won't fund this because that meany Vox Day says bad thing when you planned to do originally  nothing to harm the .Alt Rught whose primary motto is We Don't Care, Its does hurt friends here and its hurts trust. Honeslty Alex knows how to navigate the waters, put politics aside and trust him to handle the requests in the right way. He's never failed before. 

Fifth and last. I get no say I sure hope somebody incudes a level based defense adjstment to make up for assumed magic item. Its probably the only thing I have yet to see in OSR game done right and its fits heroic fantasy to a T, Conan isn't harder to hit because of his +1 shield but because of his skills, that kind of thing. 

[quote="5 Stone Games"]

Third, giving money to native American  won't make  make Vox Day happy. He is a Native American  himself and a registered member of a tribe, not sure which one [/quote]

Surely this can't be true!  How can he be a white supremacist and a Native American. 

[quote="5 Stone Games"]

Second, anyone interested in heroic fantasy , the OSR or the like better  get used to running into  Right Wingers, Reactionaires, .Alt Right  and all kinds of groups like that. Its a very popular hobby among that set. Especially OSR games.

[/quote]

I was going avoid posting on this thread as it can easily become a powder keg but this is an untrue generalization. 

This isn't a Vox day thread. I don't want give the man any more free rent here however he he isn't a White Supremacists , he's a Western Christian Civilizationsist and a  Nationalist 

In his own words 

  1. The Alt Right believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy.

and 

  1. The Alt Right is openly and avowedly nationalist. It supports all nationalisms and the right of all nations to exist, homogeneous and unadulterated by foreign invasion and immigration.

Note all nations, Native American, Western, African (he is a staunch anti colonialist) Asian 

Simply, everybody gets to live in their own lands by their own customs without foreigners around including Eurpean  people, Asian People, African people, everybody 

His own views in race and heredity and egalitarianism are what gets him branded as a White Nationalist by his detractors . If you really care about it  go to his blog . I won't post the link though. Its not germane.

Also bestial warlust missed my point. It wasn't about the OSR but about the more narrow subset of the hobby focused on heroic fantasy and yes very Conservative people and reactionaires play such games and tend to like the assciated literature   .  The .Alt Right and Neo reaction  are packed with D&D people Its has jack to do with the hobby itself who writes it or anything else only the taste of those people. They are going to be  at the table  sometimes 

In fact it may shock some peopel to know that both the founders of the hobby Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson were lifelong devout Christians . They didn't put it in the game because when it was made (70's early 80's) it wasn't a thing or necessary .The hobby being politicized like everything else is pretty new , probably  around  10 years old or so. If yu aren't comfy with certain views you can always boot the player (I've been booted as bad fit a few times), not allow the player (I've done that with someone with a very unsavory reputation)  or pass table rules banning put of context political talk. I've loosely done  the later  in recent years when things  get out of hand too. 

Its unfortunate that our little hobby has gotten this way but everything is political now and hopefully level heads will prevail and we can go back to tossing some dice. Now drop and give me a D20

 

 

 

 

I hate to say this, but I think the discussion in this thread is no longer productive, and it's starting to dip into the uncivil. Perhaps this would be a good time to acknowledge that further attempts at persuading each other to change our beliefs are unlikely to succeed in this venue, and move on?

That said, I'm being presumptious. If I'm misreading the situation, please accept my apology.

[quote="GMJoe"]

I hate to say this, but I think the discussion in this thread is no longer productive, and it's starting to dip into the uncivil. Perhaps this would be a good time to acknowledge that further attempts at persuading each other to change our beliefs are unlikely to succeed in this venue, and move on?

That said, I'm being presumptious. If I'm misreading the situation, please accept my apology.

[/quote]

I personally agree with you; but I'm also content to allow people to chat here if they can remain civil whilst doing so. 

If nothing else, we have tested D&D's alignment system in real-world conditions.

  • True Neutral characters will consort with characters of any alignment.
  • Neutral Good characters will preferably consort with Good characters, consort with Neutral characters, and never consort with Evil characters.
  • Lawful Good characters will never consort with Evil characters, nor will they consort with Neutral characters who consort with Chaotic and Evil characters, but will tolerate Neutral characters who agree not to consort with Chaotic and Evil characters, and prefer to consort with Lawful and Good characters.
  • Chaotic Neutral characters will consort with Chuck Tingle.

 

 

[quote="Alex"]

  • Chaotic Neutral characters will consort with Chuck Tingle.

[/quote]

"Hammered In The Ass By A Complex Simulation Of Antiquity-Era Economics And Social Structures In A Fantasy Mileu With Rules Strongly Based On Original Basic/Expert D&D Plus A Variety Of Optional Extensions Used To Bring Them Up To Date With Modern Gaming Trends While Still Maintaining That Distinct Old-School Feel In Play"

[quote="chalicier"]

 

 

  • Chaotic Neutral characters will consort with Chuck Tingle.

 


-Alex

 

"Hammered In The Ass By A Complex Simulation Of Antiquity-Era Economics And Social Structures In A Fantasy Mileu With Rules Strongly Based On Original Basic/Expert D&D Plus A Variety Of Optional Extensions Used To Bring Them Up To Date With Modern Gaming Trends While Still Maintaining That Distinct Old-School Feel In Play"

[/quote]

Sounds like Chuck Tingle's next Hugo-nominated bestseller to me!

[quote="Alex"] Frankly I don't know how you can consider yourself a member of this community if you don't plan to support the Chainmail Bikini Bladedancers of Aura 2017 Swimsuit Calendar but to each their own. [/quote]

That might loosen the pursestrings a bit...  I mean, the Dark Lord can't screw that one up, too, can he?

[quote="sulldawga"]

 

That might loosen the pursestrings a bit...  I mean, the Dark Lord can't screw that one up, too, can he?

[/quote]

We could always have him cowed beneath a scantily clad Bladedancer's bootheel, his evil beastman minions comedicaly skedaddling away in the background. It would fit right in between the beach volleyball and pillow fight photoshoots.

>

> >

If nothing else, we have tested D&D's alignment system in real-world conditions.

> >
    >
  • True Neutral characters will consort with characters of any alignment.
  • >
  • Neutral Good characters will preferably consort with Good characters, consort with Neutral characters, and never consort with Evil characters.
  • >
  • Lawful Good characters will never consort with Evil characters, nor will they consort with Neutral characters who consort with Chaotic and Evil characters, but will tolerate Neutral characters who agree not to consort with Chaotic and Evil characters, and prefer to consort with Lawful and Good characters.
  • >
  • Chaotic Neutral characters will consort with Chuck Tingle.
  • >
> >

Evil, of course, lurks.

[quote="jedavis"]

 

 

If nothing else, we have tested D&D's alignment system in real-world conditions.

  • True Neutral characters will consort with characters of any alignment.
  • Neutral Good characters will preferably consort with Good characters, consort with Neutral characters, and never consort with Evil characters.
  • Lawful Good characters will never consort with Evil characters, nor will they consort with Neutral characters who consort with Chaotic and Evil characters, but will tolerate Neutral characters who agree not to consort with Chaotic and Evil characters, and prefer to consort with Lawful and Good characters.
  • Chaotic Neutral characters will consort with Chuck Tingle.

 


-

 

Evil, of course, lurks.

[/quote]

Amazing forum pun. I bow to your greatness.

[quote="ZeroSum"]

 

 

 

That might loosen the pursestrings a bit...  I mean, the Dark Lord can't screw that one up, too, can he?

 


-sulldawga

 

We could always have him cowed beneath a scantily clad Bladedancer's bootheel, his evil beastman minions comedicaly skedaddling away in the background. It would fit right in between the beach volleyball and pillow fight photoshoots.

[/quote]

Listen, there's a reason there's lightly-clad bladedancers worshipping the goddess of love and war in ACKS, and that reason is called Frazetta Covers

 

 

[quote="Jard"] That being said, I am open to the idea, if you are, of donating an amount equal to my pledge to a cause that fights racism or helps refugees.  Sulldawga, Thirdkingdom, Wyzard, and Atlicaltl, if you'll pardon my snooping I've deduced that you guys are all part of the same ACKs campaign that seems to take equal parts here and over on big purple, so I am curious what you think.  Do you think it's a fair and appropriate response for those who dislike Vox Day, want to do more than just say so, but who don't wish to cut ties with ACKs, to do a matching pledge to a charitable organization?

[/quote] I'm not cutting ties with ACKS. I'm still in on the KS, and just subscribed to the Patreon yesterday. I don't want to live in a world where Vox Day denies *me* access to a product that I really like, and like I said I understand, respect, and sympathize with Alex's comments here. That he doesn't believe in financial boycotts of things to leverage change is also a factor; while he's stated he'll respect those patrons who choose to do so, he will not allow such actions to sway his decision-making. He's done a reasonably good job, I think, explaining the history of that and how it falls on multiple sides of the political spectrum.

Still, I've made my case for why I think ACKS and Alex are being used by the racist construct Vox Day and encourage Alex to reconsider whether he wants to be used that way. It's going to be a souring of the KS product to have the Dark Lord and his Vile Faceless Misions repesented within it. IMO, it stains the product in a sad way.

If Alex comes to agree with me as a result of me and others speaking up about it, then I'll have done my work. If he doesn't, he and I can disagree about it. For now, I'm still buying the product. We'll see how I feel when I'm actually holding it in my hands and looking at what I see as Vox Day's corrupting infiltration.

~*~

Rodriguez, I gave a quick answer to your query about Vox Day's harm to others in post #119 above, which got caught up in moderation because of the links. And then I had difficulty posting to the forums, so I was unable to edit out some light snark from the late hour. My apologies for that.

That glitch also delayed the response I just made. Apologies for seemingly disappearing from the conversation.

[quote="Atlictoatl"]

Rodriguez, I gave a quick answer to your query about Vox Day's harm to others in post #119 above, which got caught up in moderation because of the links. And then I had difficulty posting to the forums, so I was unable to edit out some light snark from the late hour. My apologies for that.

That glitch also delayed the response I just made. Apologies for seemingly disappearing from the conversation.

[/quote]

 

Ah, no problem!

The snarky bits didnt bother me but you make it sound somehow as if it was my responsible to research him when I doubt accusations and I certainly would disagree with that.

I agree that doxxing is a really shitty thing to do, even if she faked the review I dont think its in any way an appropriate response. If that counts as actual harm is pretty debatable though. In the worst case I could see it as a part of "inciting violence" if he also urges his fans to deal with her. 

About the "feeling of impending harrassment": Thats probably a misunderstanding. I dont think that me or anybody else will get harassed on this forum because of their stance towards Vox Day but I think that when the emotions here boil up even more and the words describing Vox Day get stronger and stronger then people who disagree run a high risk of getting labled as various unpleasant things.

Its just something I have seen online quite a few times. If it doesnt happen in here, all the better! :)

[quote="Rodriguez"] The snarky bits didnt bother me but you make it sound somehow as if it was my responsible to research him when I doubt accusations and I certainly would disagree with that. [/quote] In my fatigue that night, I may have suggested that more than I meant to. My greater point was that it didn't take more than five minutes (meaning, if that was so easy, there's a high probability of more, and potentially worse, stuff were I or anyone else to want to spend the time digging for it) for me to find evidence of him crowing about doxxing someone in front of hundreds of followers for something as insignificant as posting a bad review of him on Amazon. His spurious attempts to disclaim responsibility for his actions ("I didn't invent the rules of the game") fail to justify the fact that he doxxed someone in front of his fanbase.

There is no reason to doxx somebody other than to incite one's community (followers, in this case) to use that information to harass the person. Doxxing serves no other purpose, except perhaps to threaten someone into shutting up and backing off, because you can inflict a world of hurt on them.

Doxxing is serious shit, and people who do it in a serious way severely fuck people's lives up for weeks, months, or years. It comes with a healthy dose of emotional damage that can be hard to recover from. I don't have any proof of how malicious this specific doxxing activity was on Vox Day's part, but the fact that he's so callously blase about it implies that he's used to doing this or worse with some regularity. 

He's not remotely a good person.

> I agree that doxxing is a really shitty thing to do, even if she faked the review I dont think its in any way an appropriate response. If that counts as actual harm is pretty debatable though. In the worst case I could see it as a part of "inciting violence" if he also urges his fans to deal with her. It really isn't, though. Doxxing leads directly to harassment, which can be very damaging and which the victim has no way of stopping if it persists short of completely uprooting their lives (if that). There are victims of extreme doxxing and harrassment campaigns who have to deal with that shit years and years after the initial conflagration. It's the harassment / bullying that never stops, with some communities. 

We currently live in a moment in time when police and the courts don't quite know how to deal with doxxing. In this time, we need to exercise even more outrage against people who use doxxing as a means of controlling and threatening people they disagree with, because the system of redress victims can typically rely on is ineffectual until the legal system catches up.