[HR: Spells] Golan's Spells

It’s actually the monster parts XP value; meaning it’s the same amount in GP that you get for defeating the monster in XP - so it’s the Monster Experience Points table on pg114.

For 3000XP you’re looking at something with between ~10~13 hit dice with multiple special abilities.

UPDATED VERSION OF GOLDEN TOUCH

Heart of Gold. This is a Death spell, target slain (85), target 1 creature (x1), range touch (x0.4*), duration instantaneus (x1), target’s heart transformed into pure gold (x1.25**), saving throw negates (x0.5), arcane (x1). Total 21.25 points. This is a level 3 spell.

  • IMHO this should subsume the requirement for touch attack on the target.
    ** Guesstimation

Heart of Gold
Arcane 3
Range: touch
Duration: instantaneous

By touching the creature (this requires a successful attack throw against a resisting target, otherwise the spell is wasted), the caster transforms the victim’s heart into pure gold, instantly slaying the creature. A successful save vs. petrification negates the effects of this spell. The heart, if pulled out of the corpse, is worth 1 GP per XP the target has - the bigger and more feroscouis the creature is, the more its golden heart is worth.

Do you mean 1 GP per XP the target has or per XP the target is worth when killed? A level 5 Fighter has at least 16,000 XP…

XP the target is worth.

Why isn’t this save vs. death?

Where did the duration for the nausea come from?

I don’t know. All things considered if you face off against an ogre, you are probably better off with Charm Person than with Toad, no?

I hadn’t read that post. Very insightful.

I agree! I needed to have been reading this thread more closely. Awesome!

Thanks!

Ego is my prime requisite, so I feel qualified to answer your questions about rules.

The Blast spell construction: Nausea-inducing (as Stinking Cloud), 10 points.

Stinking Cloud can be built as the following:
Nausea-inducing (10)
20x20x20 cube (x2.25)
1 round per level (x4)
30’ range (x.6)
Save negates (x.5)
Total 27 - a breakthrough’d 2nd level spell.

For Stinking Cloud, the actual cloud lasts 1 round per level, and the nausea lasts 1d4+1 rounds after a failed saving throw. (Actually d4+1 rounds after the creature leaves the cloud, but as a more generic form, d4+1 rounds after failed saving throw seems to make sense).

If the nausea lasting d4+1 rounds increases the cost of the spell by more than 3 points, then this spell is not legal even with a maximum breakthrough. Therefore, the nausea inducing effect must come with d4+1 rounds of duration after a failed save on its own.

If there is a cost involved in the d4+1 round duration: in order to make Stinking Cloud a legal spell, given the multipliers involved (x2.7 net), the base cost of d4+1 round duration must be no more than 1.11~ points (or, alternately, a multiplier of 1.11~, much more likely 1.1). In either case, the Blast of Goo spell would remain first level, with a total cost of 9.something (the something depending on which one it is).

That’s been my interpretation, anyway, and I assume Golan agrees with it (because as said previously, ego, etc :P).

Amended because for some reason, my brain told me +1 level was max breakthrough. It is, in fact, +2 levels.

This means that the maximum cost for the d4+1 round duration is either (40 - 27)/2.7 = 4.815 flat or 40/27 = 1.48 multiplier. (Realistically rounding would make it 5 points and x1.5 multiplier).

Applying these to the goo spell, we would get a final spell cost of 11.34 with the 5 flat, or 13.0725; low end of 2nd level, or 1st with a breakthrough.

Tough decision. On one hand this is a Death spell, on the other hand it “petrifies” your heart.

While the flavor text does imply that, the spell isn’t reversible via stone to flesh. Save vs. death might be appropriate from a simple mechanics perspective. It is also the more lenient of the two saves.

OK, you have a point.

Keep in mind that this spell has a significant chance of failure as it requires BOTH a touch attack AND a save vs. death.

Debatable. Charm Person definitely has more out-of-combat utility, but during combat the Ogre’s loyalty is torn; it might just try and stop you from fighting its original friends.

Oh, and the other thing is that Charm Person doesn’t render the Ogre helpless; it can still defend itself from you.

Really, I think some of the costing problem is solved if you stop applying multipliers inappropriately. For example, why should mental characteristics replaced by new form’s (x0.2) make your spell so much cheaper when it’s actually making it a way more effective spell? To me, that’s clearly not what that multiplier was intended for. I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, Alex.

One more thing…do the “Dragon Test”: How does this spell stack up when cast against an old dragon? If a 1st level spell could eliminate an old dragon on a failed saving throw, something is wrong. What are the long term implications of this, and what would those do to the campaign world?

Is it more effective? I’d argue that it makes it roughly equally effective in combat but far less useful out-of-combat; my players can’t toad a scout and send them into the bullywug lair, for instance.

It does make it less effective as a friendly spell, certainly, but I expect the primary use in most parties would be as a hostile spell, in which case dumbing the target down to the level of a common frog is, at worst, irrelevant (the target is neutralized regardless of its mental state) and, at best, a benefit (an intelligent target might be able to figure out something useful to do even as a frog; giving them a frog’s mind prevents that).